E82 | Keep It Real #21: No Nonsense Agility

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On today's episode, Greg, Doug and Trevor #KeepItReal while talking no nonsense agility. Like this episode? You'll love our free training program (sign up below) & our Movement Foundations Online Course. 

 

Episode Transcription: Welcome to Resilient Performance Podcast, this is Keep It Real number 21. We are talking about over-complicating things like change of direction and only one of you guys is ready to go talk about it. Go ahead. You got the resource coming out at Trevor. So why don't you start? I will start. Yeah. And the new course coming out. I talk a lot about the difference between change of direction and agility because agility involves changes of direction, but there's this cognitive component where we have to. Be observing some sort of stimulus that makes us actually change directions. So it's basically what essentially what that means is it's not, pre-planned when we do preplan change, abduction work athletes can manipulate their momentum and change their velocity and use different strategies. The slow down that they can't use and be successful when they're in an actual, a reactive agility based situation. So when we think about like, Actual agility. There's this observe orient decide act kind of loop that goes on. So when we progress in athletes, especially from like a return to sport setting, we start with agility or sorry, start with change of direction, work first enclosed environment, keeping it really simple. So we athletes can, pre-plant exactly what they're going to do, just so they can get comfortable executing certain movement patterns and certain movements. Yes from there. That's when I started using the lead Tav reactive to your system where we're introducing a reactive component, but we're still keeping the drill relatively simple. And I kind of go more in the depth in terms of like, what two, one, two, two, one, two, three are. But essentially when we get to tier three, it's making the environment a little bit more chaotic. There's um, It's much more kind of open loop if you will. So there's, there's no real start and starting stop. Essentially the data is going to be reacting to my points, something that I'm doing, or I'm getting involved in the drill and we're making it actually competitive. So we're doing different drills, like goalie tag, or kind of like a kickoff game in football where we're doing like a capture, the flag deal, something where the athlete has to, um, work on either offensive or defensive agility. And they are. Making it kind of specific to the things they're actually going to be doing. And one of the reasons why the tier three stuff is hard on the athletes, because the intensity is high from both, um, a decision making standpoint and from an actual velocity intensity standpoint, there's a lot of stuff online that people are starting to do because they're understanding the difference between change of direction and agility. And the perception of, of, uh, or introducing a component of perception in agility that ends up just making drills really, really complicated and not the same time the stainless athletes will really have to react to like in sports. So they're introducing like, Three or four, like balls into one drill and eight different people. So they have to look over here and then look over there. And then at that person does this, then they go over here and if this person does that, then they have to go over there. So it's really just like, it's still kind of like, pre-plans, you're having to think like eight steps ahead about every little thing that you're going to have to do, which never happens in sports when you're in a truly reactive environment, you're reacting upon like each new moment, each new situation. So it's constantly changing. So if we're putting people in positions where they're, they're so much like. Cognitive thinking, going on, we're going to slow people down and therefore we're kind of defeating the whole purpose of the drill and getting somebody back to sport to be able to do things at high velocities. So people are thinking too much and they're actually ended up going slow. We're not really working on agility. We're working on them like doing, you know, math problems or, or whatever, um, cognitive component or that, that we've introduced into the drill. And we're getting further and further away from the skills that they actually need to be practicing. And we're making. Drill is complicated for the sake of being complicated and being hard because they're complicated and they're not actually being effective in terms of improving the biodynamic and bio motor qualities that we're looking for. Yeah. I think that's, that's a great start. And I think ultimately it comes down to like, what is, why are you trying to do what you're doing? What's the intent. And this conversation is also a proxy for, you know, the, the part-whole turning discussion. The transfer of training discussion. And then also the discussion about like, what are, what are, what is the role of various specialists and professionals when it comes to return to sport? So the first thing with that is I think that this discussion as it pertains to rehab is different than, as it pertains to strength and conditioning. So in strength and conditioning, I think smartly, a lot of coaches are saying like, pre-rehearsed change the direction. Drills might not be the best use of time for a healthy athlete. And for the most part, I kind of agree with that. But what physical therapists do is different. So in physical therapy, you're typically not working with a healthy athlete. And like, I know that there's obviously leave over between the physical part and the psychological part and the tactical and the technical and the strategic. But the first part of physical therapy is, are, have you helped an athlete be physically prepared to return to sport? And so, for example, like, If you don't do rehearse change of direction, drills, where you're forcing joints to get into certain positions and you're forcing certain schemes of loading, how do you know that that joint will ever be prepared for it? Now, when you introduce complexity in the form of an opponent, a small sided game, or whatever drills have more of a perceptual or cognitive component, because if you just said, okay, like, All we're going to do is we're going to strength, train an athlete. And then once they pass like certain strength tests and hop tests, now we're going to do more kind of like open loop agility or change the direction drills. Well, if you haven't done the fixed drills that are, you know, more predetermined, you don't know if the athlete can actually hit the positions you want. You don't know if they're using like hip dominant strategy and dominant strategy. It's the same thing with part-whole training. Like if in the military, all we ever did was full mission profiles where you have. Like an enemy force that has, you know, paintball rounds, but you never do any shooting like at the range. Well, now, if, if, when you're like shooting back at your pretend enemy, you don't know if what you're seeing is because that's the truly best strategy or because you don't have any other strategies because you never went to the range and practice fixed shooting drills, you know, in, in various schemes. So the whole point of rehab, in my opinion, at least initially is you're trying to provide. People athletes with movement options, giving them variability and giving them multiple strategies. So that now when they go in a more open loop environment, what, what the solution that emerges is actually kind of more of a choice. And it's not something that happens out of necessity because they don't actually have options. And I think you need to do kind of more closed loop drills to present people with different options and make sure that they have those strategies. Available to them and kind of a more open environment. So that's, that's kind of the first one. The second one is also it's it's. W what is your role as a professional now, you know, in rehab, if you're working with somebody from like acute injury phase, you know, day one, postop two, you're getting them until the day before they go go to training camp, then you might have to do more, more of these, like, um, You know, perceptual based agility drills. But if you know that you work with a, you know, a competent strength coach and you have a team to work with, then in my opinion, you're probably your role is best served, making sure that people are physically prepared, that they can load certain positions. You know, whether it's isometrically, um, isotonic or more of like a dynamic change of direction type environment, but maybe in more of a fixed, fixed, fixed type setting. And then if you can hand them off to a competent professional, then that professional can maybe do things that look more like what the sport is, but even with a strength coach, right? It's like how, what is the role of a strength coach and how much of the strength coach be trying to duplicate practice? Because a lot of the drills that I see even strength coaches doing that involve a perceptual agility or change the direction component still to me are great detached from the sport itself. And I think that there's always a leap of faith that has to be taken between like, The physical preparation or rehab side of things and what the sport is. And I think a lot of times, like if you do a good enough job with rehab and physical trip, then the sport often takes care of the rest of the stuff. But again, that's, that's, that's open for debate, but, um, you know, wha what other professionals are you working with and then are they going to, you know, to fill a bucket that you don't need to fill? Because if you're trying to, you know, as a, as a rehab professional, Overly fill that like perception will, you know, agility bucket and you haven't done enough of like the basic positional change of direction work. Well, I think that you've skipped a step. So, you know, that's why that there needs to be kind of like a tier system and progressive loading to ensure that you're not doing things before an athlete is ready. And then I think the last part is logistics, right? Like in a PT environment, even at end-stage rehab, it would be great if we could take like three or four people and do small sided games. But we don't have that. I mean, really like, and if you look at a lot of like Trevor stuff from the course, it's him working with an athlete and he's working with division one athletes. And luckily he's athletic enough, even though he's a rehab professional to kind of do things where he's challenging them. But what if you're not that professional? Like what if you're 50 years old? Like you're, you're, you know, the athlete, isn't going to get a lot out of chasing a 50 year old rehab provider around. They might actually get more loading, more speed of movement. Through just doing like a fixed change of direction drill. And you know, maybe like as a physical therapist, you're not, you're not working with multiple athletes at once where people are at the same stage in their rehab or the same stage in their physical preparation, their readiness, where it makes sense to do these kind of small sided games. So again, like it always comes down to like, what is the intent? What's your environment and what safe, what makes sense? I mean, I think if you want to go down the more like perceptual. Type road. I think people like Nick DiMarco, who we've had on the podcast here, we found the podcasts, I think are doing a great job of creating re like really, really good change direction, agility drills with an opponent, without making things overly complicated and not trying to overly mimic the sport. And that's where it all comes down to like the eye test and showing your work. Because I think that in theory, it makes sense at end-stage rehab or in strength conditioning to do things. That looked like the sport, but if you try to make things like Trevor said too complicated with too many moving parts, too much like cognitive decision making, where people have to slow down, that's not what happens in sport. Like in sport, you don't think you're you're reacting. And so I think there's a good way to do it and a bad way to do it. And like, anything else you don't want to, you don't want to overdo that cognitive piece because now you're not actually a physically, physically preparing the athlete because they have to slow down to think. Definitely. I think this is perfect timing for us to be talking about this with Terminus course coming out and having completed filming only a week or two ago. Pretty exciting. But, um, I think what I like most about Trevor's course and, you know, kind of aligns with what you're saying, Doug is that force is always like number one and. What sort of impulses are being created by the athlete. And if there's too much cognition and there's too many people around, there's not a space, there's too many balls going on, you know, bouncing around like that. That's kind of like what, what I was saying earlier, there's just too much that you're slowing them down by adding too much. So then you're not even applying. A harder, like physical mechanical force to their body. It's actually easier for the person. It just becomes more of like a, can my mind, you know, juggle these various different constraints, which is to me less important than actually like what forces your body can kind of handle. Um, so that's one of the best things from Trevor's courses. Like as you get towards the later stages and you know, we look at, we filmed these drills together recently. Um, Like they're, they're simple and basic, but that shouldn't be, um, that shouldn't be understood as like not useful or, um, undervalued or things like that. Like, we're always about keeping things, um, less complicated because they don't really ever need to be in our mind. Um, and then, uh, uh, forget what else I was going to say. My brain is. Oh, it's just racked here. Go ahead, Trevor. I mean, that was one of the things that when, uh, that course we did down in Philly, Greg, like two years ago, when professor Damien Farrow, who was a researcher out of Australia, Australia, I don't, it's a weird country to say right out of Australia, um, said, games should be difficult. It's our game should be easy to learn and difficult to master. So that to me is like, The essential. I mean, that's what like sports, like other than like, you know, football and some of like you get into the strategy and some of the tactics of the game, like the games are relatively simple. I want to get by you. You want to come get me? You don't want to let me score. Like, they're very simple games. Then you can kind of peel away the layers and get into the deeper levels of the game. And that's what my coaching and all kinds of stuff, so important. Um, but when you're talking about like, When we get to those end stage of rehab games, like the way I look at it is they should just be like really fun games that you would be playing in like gym class when you're a kid where you're not like the skills to me, what I want to see. Like, I look at those higher level, higher level, meaning like, you know, the tier three kind of agility, drills that talk about. And of course, where there's some sort of competition to it. Again, it should be really easy to learn, but difficult to master, but we're working on getting them to be able to execute. More of what I would consider some of the sporting skills, like cutting off an opponent, uh, you know, creating space, defending space, collapsing, somebody else's space, corralling and opponent. We're just trying to get, I want to make sure that I want to see somebody be able to execute the skills and, and patterns that we've been working on. You know, throughout the whole return to sport process at a high level in high-level is relative. Right? Cause if I'm their opponent, maybe they're way more than me, but it just getting them to be able to execute it in a different environment where they can't think about how they move in. Does it mean that I'm like making them a great, you know, defender in basketball or making them I'm going to give them like the best. You know, juke step juke caught like, nothing like that, but I'm just making sure that they can execute these things, not having to think about it. So like that whole emerging thing that you're talking about, Doug, it's like, we all can only know if something's truly emergent when the person is not thinking about how to execute it. So that's why to me, all of these kind of tier three drills are just tests to see how the person kind of move. That's why I film so many of the. So, so many of my athletes, but the things that they do, because I'm the one that's, that's being the opponent, but I want to, I go back and I look at all the film and just kind of see how they move. See if the things I like to do, the things that I don't like. And one of the reasons that I think it's very important to do that. And you're completely right, Doug about it depends on like the setting that you're in and how long you're working with w with an alpha. And there's a lot of other variables that kind of come into play. I've had a number of athletes where it's like, I w I'll tell them, it's like, look, you can practice, but I want you to only do an indie drills for the first week. And then you can do, you know, if, if it's basketball three on three right now, I was on two weeks of that because I wanted you to get a little bit more conditioning. I want you to be able to not get overwhelmed when you're with, you know, nine other people on the court. So let's, let's give it just the six people on the court total, but what happens is. That doesn't happen. They go back to practice there. They told their coach that they can play. So the coach was like, all right, well, you're healthy. Then you can kind of do everything. And I think that's not realistic all the time, but that's always like the, the, our goal is to get them to be able to walk back into practice and be exactly where they were, but nothing prepares athletes for their sport more than the sport itself does. And being prepares the athlete. You don't say right below the sport itself is the practices itself typically. So we have to kind of. Get athletes to the, to the level that they're going to be safe enough to get back into practice. Cause I think if an athlete has come off of an injury and they haven't done any sort of reactive games before even stepping foot into practice, then there's, we're just kind of taking a leap of faith that they can handle the stresses that are going to, that they're going to encounter when they actually get back to practice and, and the sport itself. But like you said, Greg, ultimately it starts with like, Do they have the force production necessary? Can they get into the positions necessary? And then from there, how do we increase the complexity increase the intensity of these drills and which is why, you know, going from clothes, changing directions, roles is always a start. We have to start there kind of clear them. They can get into those positions and hit the angles and things that we need, but then how do we take them to the next level and the next level and the next level, and eventually get them back safely into practice and safely and sport. Yeah. And I think just to emphasize again, the discussion is different where you're talking about healthy versus injured athletes, but I think a lot of times people make the point that, you know, the best athletes are the ones who have this really, however you would define it, like this amazing perceptual ability to read situations, recognize patterns. And it's why you'll a lot of times, you know, see people who like, do really well at the combine, but they're not that great when they step on the field. So you can. Overvalue, you know, physical surely physical ability. And, you know, I'm sure there's, there's people in the NBA at the time who were like more athletic than Michael Jordan, but Michael Jordan is a better basketball player. Michael Jordan is a great athlete, but I'm sure there's somebody who was way worse than Michael Jordan who had a better vertical jump, better, you know, force, plate measures, all these things. But Michael Jordan has something unique that we can't put our finger on that made him arguably the best player ever. But those perceptual abilities are also the hardest things to train. Whereas the physical abilities are the easiest to train and improve. So I think that, especially in a rehab setting, there's typically much lower hanging fruit. That's physical that we can actually influence versus, you know, like I see people post videos of like Saquon Barkley and it's like, this is what we're trying to get our athletes to do. But it's also presumptuous to think that we can get our athletes to be him because I'm sure that he was had access to really good coaches in his life. But he also has a very innate ability to do things that were number one. He was born with two that he probably mainly developed on the field because pattern recognition is so context specific. Um, and if we even go back to like the sports gene, David Epstein talks about how, at one point they had like some of the best hitters at the time and major league baseball, they had like. Barry bonds back then a rod, they went up and they were trying to, um, hit against Jennie Finch who plays softball. And just because of the nature of the delivery of the pitch and softball, where it's underhand versus overhand, they couldn't hit her. So it's not that these guys didn't have the physical ability. You know, cause they have the physical ability to at a hundred mile, an hour fastball out of the park, they had the physical ability to hit a softball. That's coming much slower, but their nervous systems hadn't been trained to recognize. The ball coming at them from that angle. And so again, how much, because, because these perceptual abilities are so context specific, how much are we really developing that in a weight room or in a physical therapy clinic versus just at a certain point saying, okay, we've prepared the athletes the best that we can. Now we have to stress the coach to a certain degree, to do the coaches job with technical tactical and strategic preparation. I think a lot of times in our field of physical therapy, strength conditioning, there's a bias that like. Sport coaches don't know what the hell they're doing. And I think maybe that that's true sometimes, but at higher levels, like not all these people are idiots, like, and even if they maybe like overload people from a physical standpoint and maybe do too much like low quality work with under recovery, from like a technical tactical and strategic standpoint, there, they tend to be probably pretty good. And I think they know more about that side of the game than we do, even though we might know, like, More about how to, how to increase loading and be systematic about that. So I think even like a, an imperfectly structured practice in terms of like how we would look at it from a physical standpoint is still probably doing more for that athletes change the direction ability than what we could do. Because again, the pattern recognition is so context specific. And even if the coach runs a quote unquote, like bad practice, just playing the game is doing things that we can never mimic. In our environment. So I think, you know, what does it look like in practice? I think what these good, you know, like, um, change or agility, drills look like without being overly complicated and trying to overly limit the sport. I think Trevor does a great job of that in, in the course, look at the Ilan strength and conditioning page. They've got some agility drills that are like pretty simple. It's usually only like one to three people and the drill. They're not trying to overly do it with, with tactics and strategy. It's still, I think. Even though there's a cognitive perceptional component. It's, you're still allowing for high physical outputs without overthinking. And then if you look at some of Kier stuff that he does with lineman, it's a lot of like grappling drills where you're looking at different leverages and body positions and involves a, you know, Battling an opponent, but you're not trying to like have a whole offensive line work in unison where now strategy and tactics is the limiting factor and not physical ability. So with all this stuff, that's a give and take. And the more of the perceptual and strategic style you try to tap into, you might, when an athlete isn't prepared under load, the physical sides, you've got to figure out like, where are those boundaries and what makes sense for your time? And I feel like if you, if you make the game that you're playing, you know, towards the end stage where you're trying to make it. More of a competitive thing. Maybe you have a couple athletes in there if you make it, like, that's like the goal is to be good at that. And you're going to just say that that's going to transfer over to like being a good basketball player or something like, that's not really, like you said, it's not the same. It's not Michael Jordan playing on a court and that's what makes him good. You're not going to take a kid or an athlete into, into a weight room onto her for a gym. People would have run around and chase balls and that's going to transfer over to, to something else, um, in terms of like the cord awareness and like those sides of th th that, that side of the game, um, and how the game plays out. But that's where my, I keep thinking now, like the more that we're talking about this, I'm like, I even care less and less about that sort of stuff. And I care more and more about the physical stuff. Like, you know, we're not trying to make a basketball player. We're just trying to create. A human that can deal with a force of basketball. And to us, like, I would think if, if we under do the physical side of things and then they go back to a sport, like we've done them a disservice. And on the flip side of that, like if we, if we do, uh, you know, if we do a ton of the physical stuff and never do, you know, never load them at speed with an agility component to it where they're reacting, that's also doing them a disservice. So. Definitely a juggle there for sure. Yeah. Like avoid the extreme. And I think, um, it also, I think where physical therapists and strength conditioning coaches can actually do a great service to their athletes is if you identify that, okay, like this athlete has all the physical school tools, physical skills to make plays on the field. And they're not making plays in the field. That's where like, when the coach says, okay, like this guy needs to do more five, 10 to five. It's like, no, like now you as the coach, like. You're better at this than me. How can you sub situations in practice to get this athlete to really work that perceptual component in a much more game specific way? Because you know, even like, there's probably plenty of athletes who like in football, like in seven, on seven are really good. But then when there's contact, they're not so good. So right where there's athletes who are good in like MMA or boxing, where, when they do like light spar and they look really good, but then when they're really getting hit, they don't. So what's, what's changing about those different settings. And I don't know, like if the strength and conditioning coach or the physical therapist is going to be the one that's like, okay, well, We're going to, we're going to do a full contact practice here to try to mimic the game. So I think transfer is important in our environments, but you can also overdo it with transfer and at a certain point. You have to trust the coach to do the things that are ultimately going to transfer the most. And if you think the coach isn't doing, isn't doing that, then that's where people's skills and emotional intelligence come in. And you could say, look like we we've identified. And this is where our collecting data's important. Like here's our physical data on this athlete. We don't think this is a physical, a physical problem. So like how can we together, you know, modify practice that ultimately you're running as the coach to make this athlete successful in the game, because. All the physical, you know, like boxes check off. We don't think it's a, it's a physical problem. It's more of a perceptual, technical, tactical, or strategic problem. Your point about everything, you know, the context specific that was like when we were just kind of texting before we decided to talk about this in the podcast was kind of what sparked everything is. I think people introduce a reactive component. That's not a specific enough to. What they're going to happening, what they're going to have to encounter when they're actually in sport, which is why we can talk about a bunch here today. You have to get them in like some sort of small side of games, situation, I think is like, that's like, that's the next step after, you know, reactive ball throat or after like closed loop, changed direction after some like reactive ball throws, things like that, just getting them into whether it's us, whether it's the strength coach, whether it's. The sport coats themselves. It's like they kind of have to go through that progression of beginning them in some sort of small side of the game, even if it's a, one-on-one where you're going to see them execute, moving patterns in a, just a different setting. And I think like small set of games don't need it, or it does not need to be, um, A version of the game or the sport that they're actually going back to, but it should involve some of the same sporting skills. Like I kind of said before of like corralling and opponent, defending space, cutting off space, you know, that kind of stuff that you're just making sure that they look comfortable and confident executing good movement patterns and good movement skills and just a more chaotic, more intense environment because that's what the systematic progression is. And that's why. We talk about it so much. It's just being able to communicate with other people involved in this person's plan of care, if you will, is huge because yeah, if they have a sport coach who is going to be doing those things, events, like I definitely do not need to do that. There's other things that can be spending, spending my time on when they come and see me. And that's why. One of the athletes. We feature a lot in the course with a bunch of different breakdown videos. Like I've been since for surgery, through a soccer season, through a basketball season, I've, I've, I've helped us out there. You kind of, you know, the entire or actions that have helped. I've worked with this athlete the entire time in my role has completely changed depending on where we are. So as we got. Back into clearing them for their sport. We did a lot more of those reactive things. Cause I wanted to make sure that they felt comfortable confident before they get thrown into a scrimmage they did during the season. I was a working with them. I don't do any of that stuff during the season because they're getting enough of it in, in practice. Maybe our sessions, we touch on certain physical qualities. If they're not getting it, we may have a strength day. We may have some, somewhat of a max velocity day, but a lot of it is just making sure. It's like recovery stuff like that comments before and like mobility work, if you will. And then they had a two month gap between seasons. So then we'd go back and we kind of refined some of those skills again and go over what has felt challenging for them. So one of the videos that will come out thinking of the next few days is going to be like, um, just a little breakdown of when they were in their basketball season. I asked them I'm like, how do you feel? Do you feel like a hundred percent acknowledge? Like I'm 90% like, well, what's that last 10%. It's when I'm having. W when I'm running down the court, defending somebody, I can defend their first cut and the first move, but I can't defend the second one. So in my mind, because of watching them play and kind of knowing what the situation is, it's like, okay, they have a trouble coming off of a second hip turn with a lot of momentum. So how do we practice that? So we'll kind of go over like, just some of the drills that I created for them to work on that specifically, because they don't feel comfortable doing that on the courts. So that's going to cause them to get beat on the court or pausing to do something that. Maybe isn't the best from a, um, uh, movement safety standpoint on the court. So kind of understanding, like, what are some of the general things that athletes do because all we're ever really trying to do is just create a better overall athlete, not a better basketball player. Like you guys were kind of saying before. So how do we take some of the different drills and concepts that we know and apply them in, in just in different ways that's going to make the athlete more robust, confident. Yeah. I think what you're talking about, and you can almost call it. Perceptual periodization, right? Where it's like, once you deem an athlete physically ready, then it's like, okay, we're going to do one-on-one stuff first, because that eliminates a lot of the strategic and tactical complexity. It's more purely physical, but there's still more of like a cognitive reactive component. Now you play three on three in basketball. Now you play five on five half court. And now you play five on five full court, which is kind of the ultimate. And I think the question for this podcast is at least like we could speak for our professional, like for physical therapists, even though there's overlap between physical therapist, strength, coaches, technical coaches, I think for us, we've done our job. If we can get an athlete to feel very physically confident in one-on-one stuff, then beyond that, it's probably the answer is not necessarily more of what we do. Um, because we're not gonna, it's not going to simulate. We're not gonna assimilate even based on our logistics and what we're allowed to do. Like we're not going to simulate what they can do in a three on three, by getting some, getting a bystander in the physical therapy clinic and trying to create a change of direction, drill with three people instead of two. Um, so I think, you know, getting somebody to like, one-on-one where they're like, yeah, I feel confident wherever I was limited. It was just because my timing was off. Right. Like. Anybody's playing a sport knows like, yeah, like I felt physically good, but my timing was off. Well, you get that timing by doing the thing at that time. Yeah. I, the last thing from me, I would say, like, I love, um, in the last dance, when Michael Jordan talks about coming off his broken foot in the second year, it wasn't back to North Carolina and went back to college and, you know, And then came back to the bulls and they were like, what the hell did you do? Like, you look unbelievable. Like how, how are you? Shouldn't be, you shouldn't be this ready yet. And he's like, I went back, I had my broken foot, I did some rehab stuff. Then I went in the gym and I started shooting by myself and I started playing. One-on-one started playing two on two, then three on three, and then eventually got the fall on five without the bulls knowing. So he's thinking he went through that exact, um, you know, Progression that we've been kind of talking about this whole time of increasing the intensity, increasing the complexity of just what he's doing. So there's, there's more, like I said, five on five from a tactical and strategic standpoint is completely different than one-on-one, but one-on-one still has a lot of the intensity components that are necessary that are going to translate into five on five. So. Yeah. Increasing the complexity in a different way. So like you said, I think, you know, if you can get somebody to be fueled, really good doing one-on-one stuff, whether it's with yourself or whether it's with somebody else. I think that's, that is where the words like, okay, we really have done our job. Hopefully it can hand them off to the coaches and people involved that can help get them up the rest of those, those next few steps. Yeah. And taking that a step further, the same documentary when Jordan came back from playing baseball. Right. Totally different sport. So for someone like, as gifted, an athlete as Jordan, you could probably take him in two months after you finished playing baseball and get him to physically in the weight room or off the court doing the things he was able to do prior to leaving basketball, but it took them like they didn't win the championship. His first year back, it took him. Like a half a season or however long it came back of getting used to playing against NBA competition. Because even though we could probably go even go in the gym and like, he can make the same number of shots in a row with nobody guarding him, like. There's no substitute for playing against NBA competition in a real game. Like nothing that we can do in our environment can duplicate that we can try to get them ready, but there's always that like, Hey, you've got to take the next step and it's beyond our control. Um, and he he's arguably the greatest ever. And it took him that, that half a season to do that. Although I remember being at the game, um, when he was number 45, I went to my uncle, got tickets to that nickname at Madison square garden. Nick's bulls Jordan coming back from baseball, wearing number 45. And prior to that, he was struggling a little bit and they even show him the documentary. And that was the game where he dropped 50 as number 45. And it's like, all right, like he's back now. He's still got it. And he got, he got the swagger back. Awesome. I think we kind of beat that up enough guys and, uh, we'll wrap it up now. So definitely, uh, head to our website opt-in for some of this content that Trevor's been creating for free, putting it out, leading up to, uh, to his course launch. Which we're looking for, we're targeting the end of the month, uh, in the March. So, um, hopefully that's all in line and you guys can get that as soon as possible. We'll definitely give some sort of a early bird promotion for people who do opt in and plus you get the free content. So, um, definitely head over to resilient performance.com for that. And we will see you on the next episode. Thanks everybody. Thank you.